JIB5: Destiel, the PR nightmare and the potential queerbaiting

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Destiel shippers’ hopes were in an all time high after Stairway to Heaven and Do You Believe in Miracles aired. Metatron’s acknowledgment of Castiel being in love with humanity or everything being about saving just one human seemed to leave things pretty clear. Some fans even called the ship semicanon or canon on Castiel’s side. Destiel shippers couldn’t be more excited for Season 10 and, after a season of a lot of suffering, all was well.

But it didn’t last long as all those hopes were quickly crushed after this weekend’s convention. Jus in Bello has celebrated its 5th edition with the participation of Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki and Misha Collins among other members of the cast, as usual. Things started going downside for shippers yesterday during Jensen’s solo panel:

“There wasn’t a whole lot of Dean and Cas storyline in Season 9. Personally I kind of enjoy that. I think the whole Dean and Cas thing has gotten a little out of proportion“.

“I don’t think there’s anything secret to the relationship even though a lot of people wish there was”.

“I certainly know that Misha and I don’t play that, so…”

(These are exact quotes. You can watch a video here).

jensen ackles jib5 - the daily fandomWhether he just referred to the fans who believe that Dean and Cas are ALREADY in a secret relationship as some fans are claiming isn’t very clear. Considering Jensen is used to fans shipping Wincest since the beginning of the show and those shippers usually believe Sam and Dean are already in a secret relationship, that could be the case. That would explain why he said that Misha and him aren’t playing it that way because Dean and Cas DON’T have a secret relationship going on (fanfiction gap in 9×06 aside).

However, what I don’t agree with is the “the whole Dean and Cas thing has gotten a little out of proportion” quote. What does that mean exactly? Have shippers gone too far? Have they become too excited about their ship? Is that supposed to be a problem? This shows that Jensen doesn’t know much about how the shipping community works.

Don’t get me wrong, Jensen’s honest answer is welcome, but it’s come too late. However, Jensen has been the first person to come clean and be honest about what he thinks of Deand and Castiel. And here’s the thing: as much as the truth might hurt, shippers would rather know if there’s anything to hope for or not (similar to what happened with Sherlock and Hannibal). If you tell shippers that Destiel is never gonna happen then that’s it. Shippers will accept it (which doesn’t mean they’ll agree with it) and will just stick to fanfiction. But if you keep telling the audience to “wait and see” (like Adam Glass did after the 9×03 chaos) then those shippers will cling to canon possibilities with all their hopes.

After yesterday’s wank fest, this morning Jared has (unintentionally) made it worse for those shippers. After Misha said that Castiel’s Heaven in 9×22 was supposed to be filled with naked men with Jensen’s face on it, Jared said that they scrapped that because “we didn’t want to make the show about something it’s not“. (You’ve got to wonder how could Jared have known that when not even Misha knew why it was changed). The whole thing remains a mystery. Jared also said that “we didn’t want to make the episode seem like we were hinting towards something because that would have ruined the show, to make it about something it wasn’t about”.  Quite an unfortunate thing to say, Mr. Padalecki. You not liking one ship is one thing, but actually saying that a same-sex relationship would ruin a show? Woah.

destiel fanart - the daily fandom
Destiel fanart (© tsuki-nekota on deviantart)

So… are Jensen and Jared at fault for this? NO. As offensive as it can be, they’re just giving their opinions. They’re actors who play a certain role. They don’t  know and analyze the show like some meta writers do. They only know what they interpret from the scripts they read. Their interpretations are as valid as ours. And, let’s be honest, they’ve proven time and again that they don’t know as much about the show as some hardcore fans do: Jared thought Sam was unhappy with Amelia, Misha and Jensen were surprised that Dean became a demon in the finale… etc.

However, we can’t ignore what’s happening: some fans have deleted their Tumblr, others their Twitter. Some have decided to quit the show and already tweeted their farewells to the writers, while others say they’ll decide over the hellatus. Fans have been hurt. And their pain is totally valid and understandable. Shipping isn’t something that’s done for fun. Shipping is not about two hot guys having sex. Shipping is a feeling. Sometimes, a way of life. And sometimes, in slash ships, it’s the reason a queer person can feel validated and represented in media. Shipping can be a very sensitive topic and should never be taken lightly, especially when it’s slash couples.

Some fans have tried to defend J2 and repeat over and over again that PR is not showrunning and, therefore, we should only trust what happens on our screens, not what some actors think of the relationships. After all, a work is not only based on authorial intent, it’s also the viewers interpretations that count. And who are the actors to take those interpretations from viewers? Nevertheless, in a time where the Internet has amplified fandom and the relationships between the fans and the product they enjoy enormously, TBTP and the cast should be aware of how their words and actions can affect their audience. That’s why I said that Jensen and Jared don’t quite get how fandom works and how the shipper community should be treated. Misha Collins does, and has always treated all fans and all shippers with respect. He even apologised yesterday when he found out that fans were hurt by Jensen and it wasn’t even his fault! Conclusion: PR in this con has been a disaster and fans are entitled to be hurt.

And now for the big question: has the show been queerbaiting the whole time? This is something we won’t be able to know until the show actually ends and Destiel hasn’t become canon. Then Supernatural will become the poster show for queerbaiting.

Should Destiel shippers give up?

That depends on every shipper. Some of them have already given up, others are staying faithful and others didn’t even believe in their canon chances from the beginning. At the end of the day, you’ve got to do what’s best for you. And if you feel like these events are taking a serious toll on you, maybe you should try to stay away from the fandom for a while and just drown yourself in fluffy fics. After all, we’re here for the enjoyment, no matter what anyone says. And like that lady in 9×03 said…

“Your truth… not mine. Your lack of faith doesn’t cancel what I believe. That’s not how it works”. 

  • I loved Destiel but Jensen has sunk my ship. I now no longer even want it to go full canon knowing how Jensen feels. I am hoping Misha gets put in a spin off and is given a different same sex partner or somthing similar. I have been a fan of the show since day one and honestly believe Destiel is being written as not just queerbaiting but J2 are blocking it. I am blaming the cast not the writers. They have got too big for there boots and are changing scripts.

    • So you believe the writers are trying to make Destiel canon but Jared and Jensen are the ones blocking it? That’s interesting. I wonder what Robbie Thompson, et al., would think of this. Especially since they’ve had their limits tested with fans who are constantly peppering them with Destiel questions.

      • You mean like they’ve been tested by fans constantly peppering them with demands that Cas be written out of the show?

      • There are plenty examples of where lines where changed that would have indicated a more Destiel read on things (in The End 5.04 and in the episode in season 8 where Castiel tries to go through with his orders to kill Dean and can’t – “I need you” was originally “I love you.” in the script). These are the two incidences I know of for sure.
        I know that these changes tend to happen because the actors think that the character wouldn’t say that, so in that case it’s valid point to say maybe it’s the actors. In 5.04 it’s Misha’s lines that get changed significantly and I tend to think it was an onset re-write, not him, but that’s because I like to think he’s on our side.

  • This show’s PR needs some serious work. We’re all WELL aware that the focus of the show is the brothers, but that doesn’t mean that all other relationships on the show are meaningless. There’s a large number of us who watch the show for the Dean/Cas dynamic, and that should be respected. Just because it’s not the MAIN focus of the show doesn’t mean it’s not important to us, or that it isn’t an important aspect of the show.

    I’m aware that PR doesn’t equal showrunning, but that doesn’t mean we deserve to have our ship invalidated and treated like it’s been a joke, especially by two actors who frequently talk about how SPN fandom is a family.

    • No one is invalidating ‘your ship’, in that you can continue to watch the show through whichever goggle you choose, but Jensen was asked point-blank, and he explained how he plays the character. Period. He doesn’t owe it to you to hem and haw about his truth, to propagate your fantasy. I saw the video. I don’t feel he was insulting or treating it as a joke. He was simply being frank.

      The writers can’t tell you how to watch the show, just as you can’t tell the writers how to write it.

      • He pauses and shifts his eyes. I say he was lying and knows it. I still adore him. I just think he’s not being honest for whatever personal reason.

  • If they can’t talk about it without being respectful and insist on marginalizing a large group of fans by makin hurtful comments, I wish they would just avoid talking about it at cons. I really appreciate that Misha is in time with the fandom and understands us – he’s always so kind, open, and accepting without making fans feel stupid or delusional. Jensen’s opinion on the matter doesn’t affect how I choose to enjoy the show and it doesn’t change what has been clearly on our screens for years. Cons should be a place to make ALL fans feel welcome and happy, and that wasn’t the case with JIB this year. Disappointing.

    • If it’s asked well would you prefer them to lie to make folks feel better or tell their opinion? What about all the viewers who wouldn’t want Diestel? Are their feelings any less important because you don’t agree? I Misha is wonderful but he also likes to edge folks on… To get a reaction which could be pro slash or just him being him.

      • they didn’t take into consideration the viewers’ opinions when they made literally every heterosexual relationship in the show canon

  • Destiel has never been hinted at in canon as a possibility. The shippers took homoerotic, which is a staple of Supernatural since Dean smacked Sam’s ass and called in honey in Bugs in the 8th epsode of season 1 and blew it WAY out of proportion.

    What Desttiel shippers refuse to accept, is that all the proofs they see are wishful thinking. If they get out of their echo chamber, they’ll relize that many, many people don’t see what they see.

    Dean and Castiel are friends. Dean is heterosexual. Jensen already confirmed that. But D/C shippers’ M.O. is to dismiss anything that doesn’t fit their biais and cling to illusions, which are always fed by Misha Collns, the ambassador of the so called queerbaiting himself.

    I’m glad Jared and Jensen finally took a stand. Destiel shippers have been getting out of control for a while now. Unlike them, we’re not naive enough to hope that this edition of JIBCon will calm them down. They’ll keep hoping for things that aren’t there and things non-shippers and other shippers have been telling them would never happen for years.

    They are the architects of their own pain. Meanwhile, we look at them, scratching our heads at the collective hallucination they seem to be experiencing, and applaud Jensen and Jared for telling them what the rest of fandom has always known.

  • I find it incredibly insulting to both Jared and Jensen every time someone claims they don’t know their characters and should have no say in the storylines. You’re wrong. About a lot of things in this article, but more than anything else you are wrong about that. Jared and Jensen have been playing Sam and Dean for 9 years. They know these characters better than anyone else. Meta writers on the internet? Please. These are people who are writing their OPINIONS. They are writing their interpretations. And those interpretations are NOT more valid than those of the people who bring these characters to life. To claim that they are is ridiculous–there are as many opinions as there are meta writers, and they can’t possibly all be right.

    It’s not the show’s fault that some people were blinded by their desire to see destiel become canon. And refusing to make destiel canon is NOT the same as stating ANY same sex relationship would ‘ruin the show’. Jared was referring ONLY to destiel, and he did so because that ship does NOT fit the character of Dean in the slightest.

    Supernatural has given fans a LGBTQ character, and destiel fans in general weren’t interested because it wasn’t Dean. If destiel fans want to be taken seriously as fans who want representation, they should work with what they are given, and campaign for more characters like Charlie. The cast and crew of Supernatural are NOT bad people; they are not homophobic, despite claims by some destiel fans. But–understandably–they don’t respond well to demands and bullying, which seems to be the forte of much of the online destiel fandom. If you want real representation, if you are serious about wanting to make the world better for the LGBTQ community through TV shows, then be mature. Ask nicely. Many, many fans would love to see LGBTQ representation that doesn’t involve changing a character who has identified as canonically straight for 9 years into someone who is bi or gay just to suit fans. That doesn’t help anyone’s cause.

    • Aww it’s always nice to see haters follow destiel news so closely! It’s like you guys are more invested in this ship than we are!

      “changing a character who has identified as canonically straight for 9 years into someone who is bi or gay just to suit fans” This line is incredibly insulted to all the people who identified as straight most of their adult life only to realize who they truly were later in life. But you know, I wouldn’t expect anything better from you.

      • Actually this article is about things Jared and Jensen have said. I’m sure if neither had said anything J2 fans wouldn’t be here to offer opinions on it. I agree wholeheartedly with what Kelios is saying and also that J2 have done destiel shippers a great favor. Enjoy Destiel in fandom just like wincest shippers do but stop demanding it from the writers and actors. It’ll never happen on the show and why should it? Enjoying your ship in fandom is encouraged! I think it was really nice of J2 to finally speak up and not let you continue to get your hopes up for something that will never happen in the show.

      • So you are saying those who are “straight” have less rights to say you are misinterpreting something because it’s not what you want to hear? It’s only insulting if you fail to acknowledge the viewpoints of someone else. Making yourself not say the truth to lead folks on is leading folks. Misha but I think he goes w the flow a bit too much which leads folks on in certain ways of thinking.

    • Kelios spreading wisdom and peace, how funny. Sage words of advice from someone who spends 99.9% of her time on twitter posting insults about Misha Collins.

    • Go away, you awful person. Go back to raining hatred down on a man who helps build orphanages, and spreading disgusting rumours about Jared and Jensen.

    • I just want to second everything this person has said. They are dead on and perfectly stated.

    • Exactly. They got caught up in their own opinions and their own interpretations that they missed what was actually there. Complaining that they know more about a character than the guy who has been playing him for nine years is extremely silly. I get that you wanted Dean to be gay, but he’s not. Stick to fanfiction or move on.

  • I feel bad for getting seriously invested in this show- it would have been one of those shows I went through on netflix and set aside if the Dean/Castiel dynamic hadn’t caught me in season 4- I was actually getting bored. Now I genuinely feel torn-I’ve spent loads of money at conventions, I became what they would call a ‘hardcore’ fan that converted other people to the show. My tweeting patterns are so voracious and predictable that I got a Neilson survey about it- but now I wish I could get it back and mark it differently. The show doesn’t want me as a viewer. Maybe I should go.

    • I feel you. I wish I had never gotten invested in this show. I wish I’d never discovered it, and Destiel, on tumblr. Destiel is what drew me…so I watched everything. I watched it all and devoted years of my life to this ship because what I saw was like nothing I’d ever seen before. I really thought they were going for it. I thought it was different. I was wrong.

      • So stop watching. Go find a different show that suits your expectations.

        See, here’s what happened with Destiel: a certain contingency of fan thought they saw something romantic between Dean and Cas. It got exaggerated and expounded (via the internet) into something it wasn’t. The writers never intended for there to be a romance between Cas and Dean (and have said as much), but nor do they want to tell you how to watch the show. If you want to watch it through shipping goggles? Have at it! Does that mean the writers are obligated to make your ship canon? Nope.

        I get that folks are disappointed, and that sucks for you. It does. Too much weight was put on the notion that Destiel would be this flagship queer romance. Those expectations were, indeed, erroneous. But fandom can configure the relationships however it wants. Keep shipping what you love! It is, however, not what everyone loves…including the show itself. It was not the story they felt it best to tell. And them’s just the facts.

  • Thank you for this article. You’ve said a lot of what I’ve had on my mind these past 24 hours in a much more eloquent way than I ever could. I’ve been supporting this show for almost ten years now. I remember the previews for Supernatural’s pilot. I’ve gone to multiple conventions, I have the entire series on DVD and have it purchased online on amazon prime. I adore this show. I have for a very, very long time. I’ve grown up with it. I started at 17 and I’m now in my late 20s. This show has changed my life, but the Dean and Castiel relationship has kept me alive. As a queer person, I didn’t grow up in an accepting family or community. I wasn’t taught that love between people of the same gender was a beautiful thing. I grew up with a very low image of myself that has trapped me in a lifelong struggle with depression. This battle that I go through everyday in loving myself, I sometimes start to lose it. I’ve hurt myself, and I’ve wanted to stop existing. Then all of a sudden on this show, I saw the most amazing thing being developed, this unique, incredibly romantic love between Dean and Castiel. Everyone around me was in love with the relationship. No one seemed to see the gender of the characters. I cried so many times just thinking about it. I didn’t know I could feel so much joy just at the thought of others falling in love with Dean/Castiel like I had. But every time someone new would say something positive about it, I’d smile and it would just make my day. I couldn’t help it. I feel this ship has made a lot of people more accepting. It’s made them understand, “Oh, that’s what same sex love looks like.” And it looks pretty identical to every other kind of love. And people are so passionate. They create masterpieces online. There are dissertations and analysis the size of books! There is incredible, incredible fanart, fan videos, and so much conversation all centering around the celebration of a relationship that transcends everything. Fan’s love for this relationship is just absolutely exquisite. And it’s a constant celebration of who I am as a person. I am a woman who loves other women. And that’s okay. But I didn’t learn that through my family, through my church, through my school and certainly not through the world itself. I learned it slowly through Supernatural, through Dean and Castiel, and through the fandom that so warmly received this relationship. I’ve just been here for the longest time supporting it and wishing to see it validated. I wanted to show it to my family and friends and have them see it too. I had hopes of it causing an awakening for a lot of people who watch it. Supernatural may not be on the largest network but it’s seen by millions of people and it’s the kind of series that can continue to have a ripple effect even after it’s off the air. I put so much of my heart and soul into this show. It wasn’t just a show for me anymore. It was a vehicle of expression. I was allowed to love “LOVE”…and be open about it in a way that wasn’t natural for me. I just owe this relationship so much, and I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve broken down crying in the past 24 hours thinking that everything beautiful I saw and still see is being twisted into this…I don’t know, this idea that it’s ruining Supernatural. That couldn’t be farther away from the truth for a lot of people. I’ve never wanted Dean and Castiel to take center stage. I’ve never wanted the focus to just be on them. But I wanted their romance out in the open. And there has been a romance, and Castiel was revealed in the finale to be in love with Dean Winchester, and no one will take that away from me. It’s in the show. But now I feel like supporting it is wrong because it’s same sex. People support so many things in this show with a passion and are allowed to do it. We’re told all interpretations are valid, but they are not. Remaining silent, not defining this relationship is giving an answer, and I know TPTB know this. Being silent is not being equal; it’s not allowing everyone to be happy. Because things like this happen. We’re told we ruin your show. We’re a nuisance to your show. We don’t just accept Dean and porn stars or Cas and a 5 minute hook-up as the best for these characters. We want to see love, despair, AND LOVE. You’ve giving that to us and we’re accepting it. Why can’t you just validate it? I don’t understand… I’ve never been more hurt in my entire life or more let down. I don’t think I can cry enough to get rid of all this disappointment. I trusted this show. I trusted the writers. And if they don’t speak up right now. I feel like I’ve lost something really special to me…

    • I want to thank you so much for what you’ve written here. It took a lot of courage to express what you feel so openly and I know that there are a lot of hurt fans out there who may feel the same way you do.

      If I may just give my inarticulate two cents: nothing that anyone has for or against Destiel can ever either what we see on screen or what the relationship means to you. I know this is painful, I know how important it would be to see it made canon, and I don’t know what the future may hold. I will say though, that whether it becomes canon or not, it is still real, it is still special, inspirational, and beautiful.

      Even if you decide to stop watching, I just want you to know that it wasn’t a waste, you weren’t seeing something that wasn’t there. No one can ever take this away from you.

      I also don’t think J2 can define the story, only the writers and the showrunner can do that. What we see on our screens is canon, what they feel are their opinions, it’s as simple as that.

      Just my two cents, I know it isn’t much, but I hope it helps a bit.

  • I don’t mind Jared and Jensen for what they said. I ship destiel, and I respect their opinion and interpretation of the text. What I DO mind is TPTB for stringing us shippers along. Instead of telling us that the ship will never become canon, they gave us false hope. That’s the reason why we’re feeling hurt and deceived.

    Moffat agreed that he did in fact queerbait in Sherlock. Hannibal writers told their fans that hannigram will never happen BUT they are free to ship as they please.

    Destiel fans have not been given that courtesy at all. From the subtext, to implied canon in 9×22 and 9×23 from Castiel’s side, we have been baited.

    Destiel is not a fanmade ship, the writers themselves have written Dean and Cas romantically from season 8.

    Though now it’s evident that they will never follow through.

    I am hurt, I feel used as a bisexual person. The main reason why I wanted destiel to become canon was to actually get queer representation. But now it’s clear that tptb have only used us and will not follow through with what they started.

    I feel stupid for actually believing that canon was a possibility but I am thankful that Jensen and Jared have finally spoken up and have given fans the closure they needed to move on.

  • Jensen and Jared are not writers for the show. They don’t know which direction the show is taking, they can’t speak for the intent of the writers or Jeremy Carver, and thus their statements don’t mean anything to me. (and tbh, some of their statements this weekend have made me question whether they’re both still stuck on the “brothers and no one else” mentality of early seasons, when it’s clear that this is no longer the case in Carver’s era.)

    All we can really look to as an indicator for the future of destiel is the way the show is structured, and what the show’s told me is that Dean and Cas are in love with each other. No amount of bad PR cancels out the fact that 9×22 and 9×23 basically told us that Castiel was in love with Dean. I interpret what I see on screen and nothing else, and really, isn’t that the point of storytelling? The author is dead. The story is what you make of it.

    I have faith in Carver and his plans for the future of TFW. So J2 can say whatever they want but ultimately, their interpretations have no more weight than yours or mine.

  • There’s a difference between honesty and just plain hurtful comments like “we didn’t want to make the show about something it’s not” and “that would have ruined the show, to make it about something it wasn’t about” (and really, Jared? Can you really say those things about a ship that your character isn’t even part of? that you barely even understand?)

    This isn’t about whether Destiel goes canon or not. This is about the fact that at a convention that people have paid hundreds of dollars to attend, many have been hurt or alienated by the actors’ comments. So while they have a right to their personal opinions, we as the fans who support their work also have the right to feel safe at an event that is FOR us.

    • You seem to have missed the part where the entire room erupted into applause when Jensen said what he said. Same with Jared’s comments. You also seem to have missed the part where the internet has been overwhelmingly positive toward their shared sentiments. Yeah, people were totes alienated homie. Like, maybe the Tumblr-dwellers.

      The fact is, almost everyone is sick of this ship and its shippers. Who are you guys going to abuse off of Twitter over this? Robbie?

      Also, Jared is a cast member on this show whose opinion is sought on a regular basis from writers and production staff. Nice try singling him out. Hashtag transparent. Jensen and Jared have repeatedly offered successful input on the direction and flow of the show. They change dialogue when needed. And the writers/directors/producers/etc. let them. Without question. Because while writers change, the actors do not and believe it or not, they know more about their characters than you or even some of the more freshman writers do. That’s just a simple fact and nothing you say can negate that.

      So sit down, honey. When you and your kind want to behave, you can join the rest of us in what used to be a fun-filled fandom before you came along.

      • I am not the OP but before Cas came along the SPN fandom was already full of Deangirls who hated Sam, and Wincesters who hated Jo. I know, because I’ve been here from season 1, episode 1. This fandom has been crappy to each other from the beginning. Don’t make it out like SPN pre-S4 was some kind of utopia where everyone behaved properly to each other.

      • Oh, please. That’s your argument?
        People at cons cheer up for anything. If J. farts, people cheer.
        Have you ever seen your fav celebrity? I’d giggle like an idiot if Misha Collins and Robert Downey Jr were in front of me, murdering kittens.
        And if J2 have all this power on the writers, why the fuck did we have season 7? Explain, please.
        And while you are at it, try to bully a little less people you don’t even know.

        • I litterally just choked on my iced tea I laughed so hard when I read your line about Misha Collins and Robert Downey Jr. murdering kittens and you giggling.

      • To add to my previous comment: I will grant, though, that the hate in this fandom has reached a level that’s truly disturbing. Please don’t make out like you Cas haters are the voice of reason when you direct so much foaming vitriol at the character/actor. The only unreasoning hatred that’s on the same level is – surprise! – also from SPN fans, this time against Sam.

        The haters in this fandom make the rest of us look bad.

      • Natalie, you’re just another in a long line of entitled, heterosexist, bullying commentators who take pleasure in the disappointment of people who watched and supported the same show that you did, dedicated their dollars and their energies, only to be told that they were second-class shippers. You’re rubbing salt in people’s wounds and you should be ashamed of yourself.

      • Just getting back to Jared’s comment, when he said he thought it would “ruin the show” he most probably didn’t mean that a same sex relationship would ruin the show, but a serious one in general (because if destiel ever did become canon, the writers could never break it off) after all, Supernatural isn’t like the Vampire Diaries, the main storyline is to do with Supernatual creatures, NOT drama induced relationships (whether they be same sex or not) and to introduce one so late in the show could possibly de-rail it from the original idea of supernatural which is hunting and killing things (which not to mention everyone loves)

  • The comments people are leaving are filled with the hard-core feelings we see from the show. The co-production of the writers, the producers/directors, the actors is exactly that – a CO-production. At this point I don’t think ANY of them know where it could go. Unlike Metatron’s certainty in knowing an ending, I don’t think anyone can say that about Supernatural – which at this point doesn’t have a set ending (as far as anyone knows). Two years ago I would have sworn that a slash relationship – developed on screen – could never have happened. Now – I’m not so sure. Our culture is changing, becoming more accepting. That being said, the writers, directors, actors, network, EVERYONE would have to do this very, very carefully. It’s not something that could just *happen*. There are, of course, things like careers, sponsorships and network repercussions (good and bad) that could come of making Destiel canon Even more important, I think if it does happen, the SPN Family would want to do it RIGHT. They have shown us time, and time, and time again that they LISTEN to us. Just as we don’t always agree with them, they don’t always agree with us, but if they DO make Destiel canon, I have full faith that they will do it in a way that is true to the characters and true to the fans. That takes a lot of work and a lot of planning. If they don’t make it canon, then I can go off in my own little public playland and show them what they are missing. So don’t be angry at Jared, or Jensen, or Misha, or the writers/producers/directors/network. Don’t be angry at those who are shipping or refuse to ship. I think Misha would be the first to tell you, we all construct our own realities – so go do that, and let the show construct its own reality, whatever that may be. The fun is seeing where it criss crosses with yours. And by the way, if Destiel does NOT become canon, mark my words, this show is breaking through some pretty tough boundaries so that some other show will be able to go even farther and create a true, slash relationship that is canon. And it will be Supernatural that gives them the ability to do that.

  • Give it an F–ing rest people! queerbaiting is a NON-term used by those that just want to whine and complain when things don’t go their way. Oh, and if you’re wondering, I was a lesbian for several years of my life and I’ve never found anything about this show offensive unless it was just one stupid episode that didn’t seem to move the storyline along.

    Jensen is entitled to his opinions, if you don’t want to hear them, then don’t ask the damn question.

    This is a TV show, not real life, learn the difference!

    The amount of argument that this has spark only PROVES that society, including our SPNFamily is not READY for Destiel, or any other form of romance on the dang show.

    Personally, I think they’ve handled the relationship just fine.

  • I am a Destiel shipper as well but yeah I respect Jensen and Jared for their honesty. Even though I am a little disappointed to know it won’t be canon, I think I understand. Supernatural is not a love story and maybe including Destiel will probably make it a little weird after all (NO OFFENCE TO FELLOW SHIPPERS). I think we all should keep it till fanfictions and fanarts and not expect too much Destiel from the show. If they never intended to make Dean and Cas a pair, we should try to work with that and enjoy our own little stories among ourselves instead. Now that Jensen cleared that they never actually acted in love or being in a secret relationship like we thought (and hoped) they did, we should probably respect that and keep our calms. They are all amazing people and we know they care about fans and respect our opinions so we should do that as well.

  • I think the fans are way too sensitive to anything that’s said. And others will twist it to their agendas. My first thought? Giving Jared painkillers and a mic is BAD IDEA.
    But the fact is maybe they’re tired of the fans reading into something that isn’t there. I’m a wincest shipper, but I do NOT see ‘wincest’ in every brother scene. It’s NOT canon and I understand that. I think wincest, or destiel being canon would ruin the show. Before I get slammed (probably too late) let me clarify. I was a huge Bones/Booth fan, UNTIL they actually got together. I was a Tiva fan on NCIS, but the fact that it finally sort of happened when she left the show made me happy. The buildup vs the actual event is SO far off from what the fans wanted.
    So yeah, I think that final step for either of the ships would just piss off most of the,shippers after the initial happydance.

  • This weekend has been very hurtful. This isn’t even about the ship per se, I always had doubts that it would go canon. My issue is how so many people are feeling used, strung along, and hurt at all of this.

    After the mess that went down after 9.03, we were told “patience” and “wait and see”, that combined with subtextual narrative hints like “he’s in love….with humanity”, gave people hope. What these comments this weekend have done is made people feel foolish for hoping. I have seen more than a dozen friends leave the show, deleting twitter and tumblr accounts in the process.

    I wish the Supernatural powers that be would at least have the respect for their audience to come forward and say that they have no intent on going there, along with an apology for making them feel strung along. This whole issue for me, is not about a ship, or a show, but the very real people being hurt in all of this.

  • The biggest irony in all of this is that this show and this relationship will probably continue to be written how it has been written, and acted how it has been acted, since I think the showrunner knows how invested a lot of fans are in it. And so does Jensen Ackles: he spoke movingly about how Dean and Cas are “kindred spirits.” It makes sense for the show to continue to utilize the chemistry between Jensen and Misha as well as the chemistry between J2 – the only thing that will change is that fewer fans will fall for it.

    I think the show (and the actors) have tried to tread some sort of middle ground that will offer something to all the various fan factions, who all love these characters – but I feel for all my friends who are hurting after this.

  • There’s a comment on tumblr that I feel destiel fans really need to see right now:

    “i know it’s so hard not to let what others say get you down. especially when they seem like a “reputable” source. but honestly, no one is allowed to tell you your ship isn’t real. they’re just not. it doesn’t matter if they’re the actor, writer, director, creator, another fan, etc. their opinion on the matter, is just that. an opinion. and just like they’re entitled to their opinion, you’re entitled to yours. so if you see it, then you see it. that’s what matters.

    try not to let what was said this weekend change how you feel about your ship. try not to let what’s ever said change how you feel about your ship. it’s your ship. if it makes you happy, let it.

    essentially, nonnie, we, the fans, sail the ships. so if we say they exist, they exist. we’re the ones who give these ships life with our writing and our art and other creations. we’re the ones who devote our time and energy into it. not them. so don’t let them, with their passive comments and ignorance for people’s feelings, take away from you what makes you happy.

    it’s not theirs. it’s yours. hold on to it.”

  • Thank you for this article. Personally, I wasn’t the least bit upset at Jensen’s unfortunate comments as he’s proven time and again that he does not answer questions honestly for whatever reason.

    I was bothered by Jared’s comment. The insinuation that a same-sex pairing would ruin the show is beyond belief. Maybe he didn’t mean it the way it came out, but that doesn’t excuse the implication in any way. You would think that after years in the spot light they would understand how to filter their thoughts before they speak.

    After forgiving rape jokes, sloppy writing, being called delusional, and being the target of hate because these actors constantly push the bibro agenda, making us the target of hate, this is the final straw. I just cant condone the unapoloogetic disrespect to people who have done nothing but support them and their careers over the years.

    I am done. Misha Collins is a wonderful human being and I am sorry that I won’t be there to support him on Supernatural. I will however, support him in anything he does other than Supernatural. He is too good for the show.

    As for Destiel, well, I’ve analyzed enough literature over the years that I know what is what. It’s there and it was done on purpose. There is no doubt. But, the hateful words that came out of this con has tainted it for me. Maybe that was the goal.

  • I believe neither Jensen and Jared intended in to hurt fans with their comments at JiB, but they did, deeply. I appreciate how this article described what shipping means to fans. The Dean/Castiel relationship for many had grown in popularity in part because of the amazing acting and chemistry Jensen and Misha have, but also due to the writing which constantly and consistently used classic romantic narrative tropes to frame the their relationship. Supernatural is an old show, but it’s been doing well and part of that growth can be contributed to people becoming emotionally invested into the Dean/Cas story, not just the Sam and Dean story (contrary to what some fans try claim). It’s a shame both both Jensen and Jared’s words (but Jensen’s most have all) have managed to disillusion and alienate a large portion of the fandom.

    They have also unintentionally given some of the most vile, vicious fans in this fandom the perfect ammo to berate and belittle Destiel shippers, Cas fans, and anyone else who values and cares about Supernatural in a way they arrogantly and smugly decree is “wrong” for watching the show for any other reason but Sam & Dean. The fandom was already a toxic and divided place to due to their ilk, but now that they are completely convinced the two leads of the show are on their side, there is no stopping them as they continue their hateful, fan-bashing, character-bashing, acting-bashing parade.

    I will continue to watch Supernatural for now, but the CW has said they value social media even more than the ratings when it comes to measuring the show’s success, and J2 (Jensen especially) have really caused a lot of damage to Supernatural in that area. I may watch, but I know I will be less likely to watch live or tweet live. It’s a shame it has come to that and Supernatural has squandered much potential not just when it comes to making a breakthrough in LGBT representation, but in throwing away the potential to tell a really moving and epic story about an angel who fell for a man who used to not pray at all. And yes, bro only fans, it would have been possible to have told that story alongside the Sam & Dean brotherly bond and it wouldn’t have needed to overshadow it or sidelined Sam or whatever else you feared would have happened. A show can be about more than one thing, you know? Peace out.

    • Since you’re adressing bro-fans, allow me to respond for those among us who share my opinion. It’s not about overshadowing the brothers for me. Castiel and his dozens episodes a season, where he’s off fighting angels wars a good portion of the time, is not going to overtake the main characters and the bond that made this show and will see it through till the end.

      The point is, just because some of you guys you decided that Dean Winchester will be your avatar for LGBT representation does not mean you get to change the fact that womanizing, stripper-loving, busty asian beauties-loving, porn star-banging Dean Winchester is canonically heterosexual. You are not the only ones in this fandom. You are not the only one “interpreting” this show. You are not the only ones invested in this character.

      You guys keep talking about tropes and subtext. Supernatural uses those tools all the time and also for Sam and Dean and if you want to accuse them of queerbaiting because of it, fine. Kripke even admitted he had a fixation with creating homoerotic subtext between heterosexual characters.I will glady find the video for you if you want to see it.

      What this is about, is that those of us who believe Dean is heterosexual and do not think Jensen is a liar when he says his character is heterosexual and has a friendship with Castiel, do not want to see Dean changed because some of you can’t deal with that reality. You DO NOT GET to change Dean because you want him to be someone else, and if we have to, we will fight against it as hard as you fight to impose your ship where plenty of us don’t want it to be.

      Fair’s fair.

  • Can’t help but wonder if Kelios and her friends would be laughing and being so smug if I really did take myself out of not only the fandom but the world. It’s quite sad that people like me hurt this badly and also have to know that people like them are not only blaming me for my own pain but also laughing and celebrating because of my pain. Gives me even more faith in the fact that people aren’t good and that nobody gives a shit about others. At least leaving will get me a way from people like them.

    • Please don’t.

      You matter and I promise you people care. It personally hurts me to hear you talking this way. My heart actually sank when I read your comment. Please, if you need to talk, my email address is knews1988@gmail.com.

      I promise you, I’m here if you need me.

  • I am a Destiel shipper through and through. Always have been, always will be, and whether or not my ship becomes canon is not going to decide if I keep watching Supernatural. However, what will decide it is if the writers keep leading me on in terms of what will and will not become canon. I don’t have an issue with the actors not seeing or shipping the two characters. I have an issue with writers constantly alluding to things that I should look forward to and then being disappointed when it’s a vague joke made by Metatron or some other character that isn’t Dean or Castiel. I hate being in this limbo world where I don’t know what to expect and getting my hopes dashed constantly. All I really, truly want is for the writers to say “Look, this is our stance on Destiel, take it or leave it” because being led on like this just sucks and frankly it’s pissing me off.

    • Shipping limbo is pretty apt, I think. But honestly we can’t know till the end of the show. I think it’s the uncertainty that gets to us more than anything. If we knew that it was a definite no, we could either grieve and move on or keep shipping in a fanon way. I think at this point a no would actually be a relief and preferable to this constant guessing at to want this writer or producer or actor “really meant” by this comment or camera angel or acting choice.

  • I’m confused, if you ship destiel, then what is the problem with Jensen stating his opinion too? He has a right to one just like you guys. You have to look at things from his perspective, the show has nothing to do with romantic love or sex, this is all that shipping is about. So of course he believes the Dean/Cas relationship has been blown out of proportion, because according to what it is written to be, it is blown out of proportion by a group of people reading too much in to it. It is your choice as a viewer, but this should not be brought up at cons, forcing the actors to discuss topics that they are obviously uncomfortable with. You all have gotten what you deserve, leave destiel shipping amongst the community, don’t bring it up to the actors and writers. Or, do all of us a favor and please stop watching and attending cons with this bullshit!!!!!.

  • Wow. Jared & Jensen are entitled to voice their opinions. What I don’t understand is why no one calls out Misha or the writers for stringing this along. Jared & Jensen were honest in their feelings. What’s wrong with that? I am not a destiel or wincest shipper. I am a bro supporter and I feel like that is what Spn is about. Always has been and always will be. What I don’t like is said “fictional” ship forced on the show.

    • The problem is the idea that a queer romance is ruining Supernatural. It’s not. That statement is not valid in any way shape or form. It’s an opinion JA and JP are allowed to have, but it’s offensive to fans who support them and it was stated in a fan convention that should have been a celebration. Frankly, if you want to speak about things that are insulting, discuss the fans who believe J2 are secretly married and their kids came from surrogates. I find that pretty fanatical and pertinent to JA/JP. Dean and Castiel, on the other hand, are fictional characters who are being written by a group of writers that do add romance and do tease their potential. That is something that fans are allowed to be invested in, to care about, and to want to see fully developed. I understand not everyone enjoys Dean/Castiel but not everyone enjoys Dean/Lisa, Dean/Suzie, Dean/Anna, Sam/Amelia, Cas/Meg, Cas/April yet these relationships are still developed and made textual. If the only relationship for the main characters that “ruins” the show is a same sex relationship then that come across as offensive. You can share an opinion about Dean/Castiel without implying it’s ruining Supernatural. I’ve never heard the actors say any other element ruins Supernatural and there have been a lot of offensive things that fans have problems with. Why Dean/Castiel. Why focus on that as having this magical quality to ruin almost 10 years of storytelling? This hyperbolic language is just hurtful.

    • Forced? Yeah, but here’s the thing, the fans didn’t create Dean, Castiel, or their relationship, the writers, directors, and producers did. They had Dean tear up monster heaven for Castiel and he was there for a year. Dean probably was looking for Castiel for months. They also had Castiel, because he couldn’t bear to take Dean away from a life where he thought the hunter was happy, make a deal with Crowley. They had Dean smile and talk about Cas’ clothes when he walked into the bunker after Kevin was brutally murdered in front of him. They had Cas give up not only his army, but his surest way of redemption, the thing he’s been wanting since season 7, for Dean. They had Dean carry around Castiel’s trench coat for months from car to car because Dean wanted it always with him. See what I’m getting at here? We’re not pulling this out of our asses or making it up. It’s there in the text of the show. What we want is for TPTB to own up to what they’re creating and for no one to call us names when we point out what seems obvious to us.

  • Some shippers are hurt, but honestly, who’s fault is it? The writer’s, who never ever said they’ll make it canon, the actor’s, who in Jensen own words “never acted like that”, or the deeply /DEEPLY/ delusional fans, who write metas about the colour of walls and tie it with Destiel?
    You guys have brought this upon yourselves. Destiel was never real, and you always deluded yourselves that it is. Now you need to deal with reality, with the fact that Jensen doesn’t play Dean as in love with Cas. You need to stop being cowards and accept that, even though you can ship it all you want, it is just not present on the show. It isn’t. It’s all in your mind, and, honestly, bless Jensen for finally saying something honest on that part.
    And btw, if you guys can’t handle the truth, you maybe – just maybe! – shouldn’t ask shipping questions on cons. Or you should, as I said, deal with reality.
    And please, don’t even get started on representation. That’s really bullshit, you are just waaay too invested into the ship you’ll use every single method to push it on the writers and actors, and representation for queer relationships on TV seemed like the most convenient method to pester them about your ship. You don’t care about representation, you care about Cas and Dean touching each other’s dicks.
    Destiel was never real, Jensen never acted on it, get over it.

  • The show isn’t about romance. It never has been. Any love interest hasn’t last very long, it always gets back to family. It’s not a love story. I think that’s what Jared means.

    I love that you can take from the show whatever you want. I, personally, don’t ship. I see why people do but it’s not why I watch shows (in general, not just SPN) so I enjoy watching a show with such intense relationships and it not being about the will they or won’t they.

    I do think the fans set themselves up for falls slightly. I’ve seen hundreds of tumblr posts deconstructing scenes and even twisting them to make them show what they want them to show. Then there’s been the campaigns and demands and then the show does something just to please them and it makes me roll my eyes because I know the next convention will come around and the question will be asked again and someone will be accused of homophobia, normally Jensen.

    It’s an awkward situation, they can’t please everyone and they know everything they do, no matter how small, will be analysed. I’m not sure it’s queer baiting but the show has certainly tried to keep fans on side and it’s unfair on everyone but especially the actors who have to face these questions.

    • I do think that some people, as well meaning as they may be, are too quick to throw around the term “queer baiting” and honestly, I’m not sure it’s a phenomenon that really exists. It often sounds like this crazy conspiracy to me, like there’s this group of evil producers sitting in their offices and cackling like “haha foolish mortals! We are tricking them to believe that these two men or two women will be together, but will we ever follow through on it! NEVER! Now we will send out our no homo flying monkeys.” That being said, I think the point where Carver or Singer can just come out and say “nope, Dean and Cas will never be in a romantic relationship” is way past due if they’re not going to pay off their relationship as becoming explicitly romantic, since I think it’s already implicit, especially after 9×22 and 9×23. One has to put two and two together, admittedly since the show hasn’t done it yet, but it’s clear that Castiel is in love with Dean. Cas’ big weakness that was revealed, the thing that he’s willing to give up his everything for: Dean. I just don’t know how else to take that.

      Also I won’t dismiss the meta writers. I only follow fellow destiel shippers, mostly meta writers and all of them predicted that Dean would become a demon at least a month ago in part because Dean has been paralleled with monsters this season. Monsters that have been made less monstrous because of eros love, leading people to believe something similar will happen to Dean. I agree that the show isn’t about romantic love, but that doesn’t mean that Sam or Dean can’t have romantic love at the end of the show. It’s been clear for a long time that Dean and Sam’s endgames are not the same. If the show is going to end on an up note, Sam won’t be hunting. Sam has never been happy hunting. He’s hunted for revenge and obligation and guilt and because he’s good at it. However, Dean hunts because he truly wants to along with Sam’s reasons. So if Dean at the end of the show is going to keep hunting and Sam is not, what’s wrong with them having someone on their arm at the end?

      • You might want to follow some meta writers who aren’t Destiel shippers. It’s fine to enjoy a ship, but this characterization of Sam is being made by fans who don’t understand him well. Few meta writers I follow, other Destiel shippers, see Sam and Dean parted at any point in the show. Certainly Jared and Jensen don’t. I’m not trying to be argumentative or anything. I’m just suggesting another perspective might be useful in understanding Sam who is usually left as an afterthought by Destiel meta writers.

  • For me, a non-shipper person, it was of course never a fanon thing. I don’t ship. I don’t see couples out of nowhere.

    I’m a long time fan, I was what some people call “A brothers only fan,” so when Castiel came to the show, I was really uncomfortable with the way he appeared, since I thought he was a bad guy.
    After sacrifice and sacrifice, Castiel became one of the boys to me, and even when my favorite character is Dean, I saw Castiel as part of a three sides main character. That’s why I stick with the Team Free Will thing, and season after season made me glad he wasn’t gone.

    But something change. I started to notice the narrative and the way Dean reacted towards his angel friend, and the subtext, and I thought it was great that the show started to make something romantic with them, because that’s what the show did. And after Season 8, I was sure they’re going to go there, and the long time waiting of Dean as a bisexual man would come to screen plain text.

    Now, after two episodes that stated plain text that Castiel is indeed in love with Dean, they say no, that’s not true, that’s not what the show is about. And I can’t stop thinking about the many times people said if Cas was a girl, they would be together. Now I can say they were right. And I am sorry I deny that in multiple ocassions, cause I thought the show/crew was not playing with it.

    I completely understand how they say the brothers don’t see a future with families. Thing is what they created was a family. And it happens to be a couple that are in love, but they can’t be together because they’re men.
    But of course now I can’t even see if they’re considering Castiel part of the family, and all the step by step they “evolve” during S8 and S9 to break the brothers’ codependency was just a lie, because Castiel is not even part of the plan to save Dean.

    It’s all about the brothers, and I wish I could go back in time to be that ”brothers fan”, but I can’t, because they presented a road that was a little healthier, something to look up for, and now they’re saying it was just a lie.
    I can’t go back in time, and un-love that little family of three, that angel, that relationship between an awesome supernatural creature with my favorite character.

    I wish I could quit, but the show is probably happy that I can’t, so the thing is going to continue with the same vicious cycle, making money out of ratings and cons while disaproving everything that they see as normal, since there’s still fans that consider everything some of us say as ”negativity”, or ”wank”, when it’s not about that at all but love.

    It’s like we’re part of the monsters they kill.

  • I ship Destiel, but only really as a fandom thing. I’m okay with it not happening on the show because I like what’s already there. And I’m not bothered by what’s been said. I think J2 just don’t want shippers to get their hopes up for something that won’t happen and then feel hurt when SPN ends and Destiel never happened, And I understand that. Some are just taking it too personally.

  • Shipping is fine, but bullying the production staff to try to make it real is not. We all have our ships, and that’s what fanfic and art is for. Pushing to make it reality is not only doomed to failure, it’s annoying to those of us with different ships. Please just accept the truth, which is that the show is not about to pander to a few bullies. Please also accept that you can ship whoever and whatever you like, but that Supernatural is no more about Dean and Castiel getting it on than it is about Dean and Sam, or Bobby, or Gabriel. Take it to fanfic and stop trying to push for your fantasy to become real.

  • I’m getting so tired of this…sometimes I wish I could just quit this show like my friends have, but for some damn reason I can’t. If Destiel isn’t going to happen (and thanks to season 9 I no longer think it is) then it has to be TPTB that tells us and NOT the actors.

  • I’m not going to speak to the Destiel issue because I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I have to address this: “Considering Jensen is used to fans shipping Wincest since the beginning of the show and those shippers usually believe Sam and Dean are already in a secret relationship, that could be the case. ”

    I don’t know a single Wincest shipper who believes that Sam and Dean have secret sexual relationship in canon. That is entirely fandom shipping. They are brothers and platonic lifemates, not lovers. It’s easy to keep the two separate if you don’t start out with unrealistic expectations.

  • And by the way, it is incredibly insulting to Jared and Jensen to suggest that meta writers understand Sam and Dean and their story better than the professionals who have been there from the beginning with Eric Kripke and Kim Manners et al, and who work 14-16 hour days portraying them. They care about and are protective of their characters. They have no reason to lie or lead fans on. They are the only actors on the show who have no reason to. They aren’t in danger of losing their jobs.

  • Years after Supernatural has ended, I believe everyone will be able to see that there was queer-baiting with scripts, and online writer and crew activity, largely in an effort to keep ratings steady. Jared’s response at this con is best ignored. However, I wish fans would be a little less “in awe” of Jensen and confront him about his inability to be respectful to a con-questioner who asked a simple question that had nothing to do with “shipping”. Especially when Jensen is being paid to be at the con and entertain fans of the show. What is it about Jensen that for the last few times, he has been over-eager to jump on the soapbox of an anti-“Destiel” speech when asked simple questions about Dean and Cas? At the end of the day, he is the second-billed actor on a TV show on the least watched network channel; but perhaps all these con appearances have made him feel very mighty and powerful.

  • “has the show been queerbaiting the whole time?”

    If by queerbaiting you mean Dean and Cas make eye contact when they talk and people on the internet spin it as longing for love. Then yes. Yes it has been queerbaiting.

    • No, I think he meant “putting in Misha’s script things like – Cas acts like a jilted lover – and using Dean and Cas’ dialogues to show love between two other characters of the right gender and going canon with Cas being in love with Dean Humanity Winchester”.

  • Is it the actors fault that these people drew their own conclusions and pretty much dreamt up something that was never meant to exist in the first place? As Jensen said, it WAS blown way out of proportion. People seem to forget that this is a show, which means if you like it you watch it, you don’t like it? Then turn the damn channel and stop whining about something not being “canon” when it was never meant to be that in the first place.

  • GUYS GUYS GUYS!!! Were totally forgetting that MISHA IS READY FOR DESTIEL thus i wouldnt rule out cannont yet. Personally i think that Jared and Jensen – much like Dean – are in denial! they are blind to something that misha clearly isnt and cas clearly isnt now “being in love with….humanity” yea right. Misha see’s this for what it is and the fact that at least one of the cast members accepts the reality of this ship is a battle half won! Becuase now misha can spread his ideas to the writers – as I assume he has hence the season 9 hints. It would be worse if this ship was purely a fandom thing and ALL actors said it was false. At least this way we are not imagining things! Whether dean or Jensen wants it or not there is romance between destiel. Whether he plays to it or not is irrelevant because no matter how you play dean now, the relationship between dean and cas has already been establsihed. I am hopefull for a destiel moment in the last epp of the last ever season. It would make a lot of sense as no viewrs would be lost and we shippers would be happy.

  • “They don’t know and analyse the show like some meta writers do.”
    So you think the actors don’t know better about their roles which they have been playing for nine years and did a great job than meta fans?
    Woah that’s new.

  • I have no reason to listen to a word Kelios says since she is a grown woman who spends the majority of her time online spewing the most horrible, vitriolic crap about Misha Collins – who is a genuinely kind, nice, talented man who doesn’t deserve that. But the onlybro fans have always been pretty hypocritical in that respect. I love Dean, Sam, AND Cas and there is room on the show for all of them. Jensen, Jared, and Misha are all very close friends and I’m sure they’d be disgusted to see how this fandom treats each other. Seriously. What do to get out of hate other than bad karma and a terrible rep online? Grow up. There is room for everyone in this fandom and people shouldn’t be marginalized and absurd for shipping, which.. ALL fandoms have.

  • I actually agree with the idea that Supernatural isn’t about Dean and Cas together and making it about them could possibly pull the show out from its foundation. In the end its about two brothers fighting for each other, and when our fallen angel is added to the mix its good and everything but its not soley about the relationship between that fallen angel and one of the brothers.
    However the hope of Destiel has held strong and the need for it to become canon surpasses that of desire and want, and having that fire fueled along this season and then distinctly put out is not what should have happened.
    The hope of Destiel adds to the show overall and the dynamic of Dean and Cas give it a certain flavor that to be erased now would be stupid and rather pointless. The two idiots are in love and if the actors are uncomfortable with it then it can always be expressed in different ways, not by completely calling it off.

  • Destiel was so much more than seeing my ‘ship go canon’. It was about hope for people like me. It was an opportunity for something different and unique that I’ve been wanting for so long now. I know hateful fans are already bashing LGBTQ fans who saw in Destiel a chance of representation, but you know what? I don’t care what the haters are spitting about us. I care that right now Jensen and Misha are using fake queer displays of affection to make us excited. Right after Jensen’s statements on Dean and Cas’ relationship they had a fake make out session on JIBcon’s stage. This was never just a joke or something silly to me, this is not about making fun of queer relationships. This was something huge with a real meaning. It was about challenging stereotypes and going beyond society’s idea of queerness.

    I can’t rank what’s upsetting me the most. I can’t define if it’s the way Jensen said it, that he was glad that Dean and Cas didn’t have many scenes together.. what is this about, Jensen? You’d actually rather see Dean miserable and suffering alone than having his best friend around if that meant he was developing romantic feelings for him? Is that how much you despise the idea of Dean falling in love with a same sex individual?

    Or the fact that Jared admitted changing the original script with Destiel scenes because they wouldn’t want to ‘ruin’ the show. wow. How little you know your fanbase to go to a room full of LGBTQ fans who pay and are emotionally invested in your show, to tell them in their faces that a queer relationship involving a lead character would ‘ruin’ it for you.

    Or if it is the fact that Jensen said he and Misha, both were glad to have less scenes together because it was getting out of hand. And then Misha says in his panel that he disagrees and actually his favorite scenes were with Dean because it ‘just clicks’. My friends in JIBcon were shocked that Jensen actually lied and dragged Misha with him not to look mean and then Misha says exactly the opposite. It was a low blow.

    So many things happened this weekend but the bottom line is:
    J2 are TPTB. They have a kind of power and influence over the show that will never allow Destiel to be canon. Jensen and Jared will keep changing the scripts that come with ‘too much’ destiel so it doesn’t ruin their show. I’m getting so many messages of heart broken fans who feel used and can’t even bear the thought of watching spn. The sadness and pain is palpable.

    I’m so disappointed and hurt and sad, I wish this was just a nightmare or that someone in the show would speak up, like the show runner. Was this all there was to it? Was it all about stringing queer fans along with the possibility of canon? Is that all we, LGBTQ people are to you? A means to an end? Who’s running this show and taking responsibility for J2’s decisions?

  • I can’t thank you enough for this beautiful article. Bravo for saying shipping is a feeling and shouldn’t be taken lightly. I actually feel understood & heard now. You’ve touched on several things this past weekend has brought to my heart and mind. <3

  • Wow. Is this how shipping & fanning done in this day & age? For the fans to shove their ships down the casts & crews’ throats? Whatever happened to the Golden Rule of “no shipping & fanwork-related questions at cons”? And have you people even heard of “We ship whatever we like canon be damned but we keep it to ourselves”? Whatever. This article & the hysteria I’ve read in the comments only made me glad I stopped participating in fandom many years ago.

  • I find this post insulting in the extreme. There has never been anything, other than some fans desires, to insinuate that Dean and Castiel are a couple. What Jared said in no way suggested that having a gay relationship on the show would ruin it, he said THAT relationship would ruin it because it just does not represent the character of Dean at all. Dean has always been a ladies man and there hasn’t been even an inkling of his character being bisexual.

    To say it’s insulting to the fans is preposterous. The fans can ship whomever they choose in fanfiction but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual show. If you find your fantasy being knocked down is something insulting then perhaps you need to to take a step back and separate reality from fiction.

    I’m a homosexual male and there has never been any queerbaiting on Supernatural. There have been jokes made and innuendo which is all part of the witty writing. To call it queerbaiting IS insulting to gay viewers. If they suddenly turned around and wrote Dean Winchester – one of the most blatantly hetero male characters on TV – bisexual, then it really would be an insult to gay viewers. Get a grip.

    The show has never been about any other relationships other than that of family, and the non-related people that become family by extension. The very small scenes we have had regarding romantic relationships are only essential to us, as viewers, to understand that in the world of the Winchesters romantic relationships are something they can not sustain.

    The bond between Castiel and Dean is one of strong friendship and brotherhood that is all. To say otherwise is to infer that men cannot have deep abiding friendships that are not sexual or romantic and that is doubly insulting; to homosexuals and to all men in general.

    The show, and what the actors have stated is not insulting. This post however, is.

  • For the people who are saying that Jensen and Jared know their characters better than anyone else, just let me say this: yes, they might know their characters better than anyone else, but, at the end of the day, they’re not the ones writing the show and, as much “power” they might have, once a showrunner decides what path the show and the characters will take, IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT ARE THEIR PERSONAL OPINIONS, IF THEY’RE ACTORS THEY’LL HAVE TO BE PROFESSIONAL AND PERIOD. By refusing certain storylines, they’ll be only burning themselves in the industry and probably being labelled as unprofessional, which I am pretty sure they aren’t and they are very familiar with the ethics regards the industry.

    I respect Jensen’s opinion, just like I respect anyone else’s, however, if Carver decides that he wants to make Dean say that he loves Castiel because he (Carver) believes that he wrote the story to go to that path, Jensen will have to do it. He just plays Dean, he doesn’t analyze the final product like those who are watching and people are open to interpret it the way they want it.

    “No they can’t”. Yes, they can. People can choose how they’ll interpret things, choosing to do it through the actual lines (text) or through between the lines (subtext) and you can’t say how wrong they are for doing it. You can’t impose your own views on people who have different upbringings and choose to interpret things differently than yours.

    With that being said, as someone who sees and believes that Dean and Cas nourish feelings past friendship for each other, I understand why Destiel fans are sad now. I’m not sad and I don’t agree 100% with them but it would be inconsiderated of me to impose my views on why they shouldn’t be sad and I am not doing it. I just wish that SPN fans who dislike the Dean/Cas idea stop bugging on those who like it and also stop poking at those who are wounded with sticks or making fun of their hurt. Stop impose your views on other people.

    • Actually, the actors have every right to refuse a storyline that doesn’t factor into what they were contracted for. Unless it was stated very clearly when the contract was signed that there would be a homosexual storyline that they were expected to participate in, they can say no at ANY time. You obviously have zero knowledge of the industry and how it works.

      For the record, I would like just one tiny piece of evidence that the writers, producers and creators of the show ever had any intention of writing in Dean and Castiel as a couple. The evidence can’t be put forward, because there isn’t any. It is what a bunch of fans HOPED would happen. Just because two actors have chemistry doesn’t mean the writers will turn it into a sexual relationship. Jared and Jensen also have tremendous chemistry but the writers aren’t going to write them in as couple any more more than they will write in Dean and Castiel, just to appease the shippers.

      People being sad over something like this is completely ridiculous and childish. The characters are playing the same roles they have been since each of them was introduced in the show, Just because the show doesn’t go in the direction that some fans want it to doesn’t make it wrong. If people want Dean and Castiel as a couple there is a wealth of fanfiction out there to sate their desires. The show would be destroyed for the majority of viewers if the writers pandered to a very vocal minority. But the Destiel shippers don’t seem to care about that, they just want what they want. Most people want the show free of any relationships other than that of brothers, friends and allies. It’s an action adventure/sci fi show, not a romantic drama.

  • I think that Jared was saying that this is not a show about romance. And it would change the show we know and love.

    None of the romantic relationships of any character has ever ended well and that’s just the show. I’d rather not have it canon with the view that IT’S SUPERNATURAL.

    If they get into a relationship the chances of Cass being PERMANENTLY KILLED OFF rises dramatically.

    Whether it’s CANON OR NOT, it’s still as real to me as any canon ship.
    It’s how I interpret it and if I decide in my head that they look like they just had sex then I can believe that did if I want to.
    I don’t need it on screen to prove it.
    I interpret it in my way and I’m happy like that.

  • The show has always been about the relationship of two brothers as they tracking down monsters and avenge their parents death. The show wasn’t about Dean’s struggles with his sexuality or about finding true angelic love etc. And I don’t see the show in general about romantic relationships as much as theme of brotherly love.

    That said, there is certainly romantic tropes and sub text between male actors (and female)but that is a secondary story and not the main focus. For example, the show never canonized megstiel with the much promised pizza party and it is unlikely they canonize destiel. But I don’t feel as a fan I was “bated” with megstiel [though I’m disappointed they never had pizza as I look at it as an unexplored story line]. Maybe other feels as bated by the lack of canonizing Megstiel similar to those feel about the lack of consummating Destiel pair.

    The show like many today is trying to be all things to fans of all sexual orientations. There is enough sub text to read into a story about Destiel or take it on more face value as a story about platonic brotherly love who has to deal with woman slipping them their phone #. Even Cas’s character was ambiguous with his “date” with his boss who he ended up babysitting for.

    I agree the LGBT deserves fair representation on TV shows but I’m not sure supernatural is the show for it. And nor that they owe the LGBT anything. Sure it would noble of them to take that stand and make that fight. That said, Charlie was added as a character but much of fandom rejected her adorable character and to be fair to the writers that probably scared them about getting to heavy down this path. At least that is my take.

  • Too many comments gone missing. It’s a pity, no one was insulting.
    Well, I’m done with spn anyway, I’m sick and tired of the baiting, and even more of the people who blindly continue to say that there was no queer baiting at all.
    This is not a b movie, everything that goes on screen is put there for a reason. Free to believe in tptb’s good&pure intentions and in Santa Claus, I’m personally grateful to j2 for finally breaking the illusion.
    Let’s hope that Constantine will give us a openly bi main character next fall and let’s forget about this.

  • I am probably in the minority, but I am going to voice my opinion anyway. I have eight (yes, 8) children, and seven of these children are boys…well, now they are men. When this show started, I was in the middle of an “empty nest” crisis. I started watching a show about brothers, and I felt a little better. Some of my sons are closer to each other than to the sibling group as a whole. My youngest sons have always looked up to my oldest sons. That being said, I have watched this show from the beginning and what I am still watching is a story about brothers. Dean, Sam and Castiel are brothers, not lovers. Why is it so hard for people to accept deep, healthy brotherly love? Why does it have to be something else? One of my favorite things to do (to this day) is to listen their conversations when they are talking amongst themselves. They give each other “grief” about anything and everything. I look at Dean, Sam, and Castiel, and I see brothers interacting. Brothers who, like my own sons, love each other deeply. Not sexually. Why must everything be about sex and/or sexual relationships? Just let them be brothers.

  • This to me, is such a shame. I am not a Destiel shipper, and I am fully entitled to my opinion as is everybody on either side of the debate. However, I think that it is a little much to be so intensely angry about comments made by an actor who probably (though I can’t say for sure) has to consider every word he says for fear of backlash by fans, and has to funnel his opinions through PR, who tell him exactly what he is and isn’t allowed to say.

    We are talking about a very real person, not a picture in a magazine or a face on the screen, but a living, breathing human being who has a family, and has opinions that not everyone is going to agree with. Not a single one of us knows what it is like to be scrutinized on a daily basis and labelled as a monster because of offhanded comments that we make. Comparing him to Misha Collins, who is very clearly an outgoing and open person, is unfair. They are two different people, Jensen Ackles has always seemed a little more introverted to me, so when compared alongside Misha Collins, he does come across as sometimes dismissive and uncaring.

    Do I think his comments were potentially hurtful?


    Do I think he meant them that way?

    I hope not.

    His use of “Out of proportion” in my opinion, was his way of gesturing to the fans who have decided Destiel is cannon. From the perspective of a person who lives and breathes that show, who plays one of the characters and knows the scripts better than most, that is an entirely valid opinion. Jensen Ackles doesn’t appear to agree with Destiel, but I don’t think that makes him homophobic.

    It is a rocky situation to be in, because we are at a place in history where everyone falls on one end of a spectrum based on their views on Homosexuality and LGBT rights. There is no middle ground, and in the fight for equality, I can understand that. However, I don’t consider Jensen Ackles or any of the SPN staff homophobic just because they don’t want to make two of their protagonists a couple.

    Are we sending the message that if they don’t make Destiel cannon, we won’t support the show? That’s not fighting for equality, that is turning into the monsters we so desperately seek to overcome.

    Shaming someone for their views on sexuality, whether they are gay, straight, or anything else, is not acceptable.

    As for the show’s potential “queer baiting,” that is a hard thing to take a stance on. So much of it is up to perspective and interpretation. When I see Dean saying “I need you” to Cas, I see it as two brothers whose bond is that of a family. If you see it another way, that is up to you, and you might very well be right, in the same way that I may be right. We don’t know one way or the other, so how can we decide that is an instance of queer baiting? Just because you take it that way, doesn’t make it true.

    As for Jared’s comments, I didn’t see the video and don’t feel comfortable forming my opinion around snippets shown in an article.

    So this got long, and is all speculation on my part, but I think I got across the point I was trying to make.

    Let’s not crucify another person for what they think about a TV show,

  • I’m just gunna treat J2 as fanboys. Not all spn fans ship destiel. Apparently J2 ships wincest. Even though I thought Jared shipped destiel. This is why I love Misha. He’s like a fan himself. And we all know he ships it. So J2’s opinions on destiel don’t matter. It’s perfectly clear that Dean Winchester and Castiel angel of The Lord are in love. Cas has said that they “share a more profound bond.” Balthazar has called Cas “the dirty angel in the trench coat who’s in love with you” as he is talking to dean. We have all seen the way dean and Cas look at one another and it is perfectly clear. They are in love. I believe that if Cas(or Dean) were a girl and destiel was a heterosexual ship, that it would’ve been canon since 4×01. Castiel and meg had hardly known each other, but in the days they had met, they had gotten together. Sam had even called it ‘megstiel’. The writers are just homophobic and choose to believe against destiel because they can’t handle it. No fans should hate against J2, just because they have different opinions. Do we hate on winsest, megstiel, sastiel etc shippers? No. So there should be no hate on J2. In the time before supernatural ends, I don’t believe destiel will become canon. But that doesn’t mean I don’t still ship it. If there were different writers who looked more deeply into the characters they had created, and supported gay rights, then I would believe destiel would be canon. So it’s not J2M’s fault, or ours. It had been up to the writers and creators to make destiel canon, and they decided against it. But we will still ship it. This ship will die with us.

  • I adore the current relationship between Dean and Cas. I certainly understand why many ship it. I also think that if the actors say they are not playing it as romantic then they are not lying. I can see a non- romantic interpretation.

    But here’s my worry: with Jensen and Jared’s comment at the convention I wonder if they will change how Dean and Cas interact? If they feel the fandom is blaming them for queer baiting, won’t they avoid anything that hurts fans? And if they don’t intend to make Destiel canon, won’t fan furor encourage them to keep the characters apart?

    I just want Dean and Cas on my screen. I don’t want convention questions to take that away because the actors are afraid off insulting fans.

  • I just think it would be nice for it to be canon. A same sex relationship in such a popular show would be really great representation. And if needed, couldn’t they just make it canon in the last episode to avoid “derailing the show”. The fans aren’t (well most of them arent) asking for this to be a huge deal. Just acknowledgement of a romantic relationship between dean and cas would be fine.

    • A same-sex relationship for ONE episode, as a series is ending, does not make for great representaion in the least. Conflating your desire to see your ship validated with strides in representation is not only disingenuous, it’s hardly what everyone wants nor what the show has been heading towards. More and more shows are exploring varied relationships. Heck, every single cable show does. Why not pick a different show to follow? One that serves your desire to see better representation? Why does it HAVE to be SPN?

  • Reblogged this on TV taught me how to feel and commented:
    I will wait until Season 10 is over. When it turns out that everything was queerbaiting, I am going to go on the offensive. Because queerbaiting is NOT OKAY.

    • Go on the offensive…how? Stop watching? Please do. There is genuine debate as to whether the show actually indulged in queer baiting. Personally, I don’t think it did. And I’m bi.

      • I’m bi myself (and don’t get me started on the prevailing opinion that there is no such thing as bisexuality)… Why don’t you think they queerbaited?
        I’m not so optimistic, but I’ll wait until the end of season 10. If it plays out without any comment on Destiel, I will be epically pissed.
        As to how we can go on the offensive I’m still thinking. There are wonderful ways protestors use non-violent resistance to make their points, maybe something like that.
        Stop watching won’t do anything since it’s the last season… Also, that’s not active enough in my opinion. I’d love to do a large thing – which would require 1) an idea 2) organisation 3) participation.
        Still working on step 1, though^^

        • As I said earlier, I didn’t see the romantic attraction between Cas and Dean. They have a very particular relationship, but not all love needs to mean sex. This sort of thing doesn’t belong in the story of Supernatural. Look at every other romantic relationship the show has featured: failure failure failure. It’s simply not what the show is about. And just about every other stinkin’ show on TV these days is pushing the sexual envelope and turning into a soap opera. Men can have salient relationships without screwing, believe it or not.

          I don’t think we should inundate the writers with demands to actualize whichever ship is our fave. Writing for TV is hard enough without trying to cater to fandom’s many whims. Stop watching the show if you don’t like it’s direction. Be proactive by living your OWN best life, and YOU create the sorts of books, plays, films you want to see. Patronize those properties. But trying to bully other creators into doing what you want them to is not only unfair, it’s kinda absurd. (I work in one of the creative fields; I know from whence I speak!)

  • OMG, people. I really don’t understand something in this world. I also love Dean/Can, I liked it since s5. But why so serious? I thought slash shipping IS about fun. And I see nothing wrong with queerbaiting, many shows and cartoons use it. I enjoy the subtext. I enjoy feeling the bonds that characters established. But I don’t expect Dean and Can to be together for real in the show. The show isn’t really about them being together. They try to save the people they love, making mistakes, screwing up and so on. But why should it be official, that e.g. Dean and Can are sleeping? Want something bisexual? Watch Glee, I guess, and feel content.
    Please, stop taking this so seriously. It is just a show. I like it, too. But it is not real.
    Read fanfics, watch pictures, but don’t blame the show.

  • Ok, before I begin, I am most definitely not trying to pick a fight, or insult anyone, or anything. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and for speaking out about it, I respect you. This is in regards to Jensen and Jared’s comments. This is just how I interpreted them. Because I think that was the problem. People interpreted the comments differently.

    I followed the link about Jensen’s comments back to the full video on YouTube. I think it’s important to note, first of all, he said, in his opinion. This was how he felt about it. Everyone has the right to express how they feel about something. We all expect that to have that freedom, right here, right now.

    The way I Interpreted what Jensen said when he said “I think the whole Dean and Cas thing has gotten a little out of proportion“ is that he meant that the show was originally about two brothers who hunted the supernatural. Obviously, I understand the storyline developed a lot from there, but what I personally felt he meant was that, a lot of people, not all Destiel shippers and non-Destiel shippers, have zoned in on this relationship between Dean and Cas, and it has definitely blown up in the fandom. A lot of people, when discussing this show, at some point, feel the need to make their position on the relationship quite clear.

    “I don’t think there’s anything secret to the relationship even though a lot of people wish there was”. Again, it is important to focus on the I. What Jensen is saying is that Jensen doesn’t see anything secret in the relationship between Dean and Cas. I felt he was saying that he can’t see anything there that perhaps other people see. For him, he doesn’t see any subtext in the interactions.

    “I certainly know that Misha and I don’t play that, so….” I think that is just Jensen saying that when he and Misha are working on a scene, he doesn’t feel they consciously mean to portray the relationship as a romantic one. Obviously, Jensen can’t speak for Misha, but what he is saying is, he doesn’t see what could be construed as a romantic interaction when he is acting alongside him.

    Now for Jared. I don’t think Jared meant to imply he thought a same-sex relationship would ruin the show. I think he felt that a romantic relationship between the two characters of Dean and Cas possibly wouldn’t have been a good direction to take for the development of the plot. That’s his opinion on how that type of relationship would influence where the show was going.

    About the hinting reference. I think, if anything, this is simply stating ‘As far as I know, there are no plans to create a relationship between these two characters.’ This is what people ask for all the time. Many shippers simply want to know, is there a future. Realistically, we know many of our ships will never be canon. As much as I want it, Derek is never going to walk in on Peter bending Stiles over a table.

    So, well there. Here we have my long and not asked for view on Jensen and Jared’s comments. As I said, just my honest interpretation of their comments. Feel free to give your view, if you differed with my own, as I want to know how other people view what I had to say.

  • I know this is old news but I would still like to express my opinion.

    I am a hardcore Destiel shipper. It is my OTP and it has changed my life. That being said, it is not the only reason I watch the show. I love Dean and Sam with all my heart. I have created an emotional attachment to these characters over the last 9 seasons, and I am proud to be an avid member of this fandom.

    I do not believe Jared & Jensen had any intention of hurting fans with their comments. Their interpretation of the show IS valid, as are their opinions. I don’t think either of them have a true understanding of what shipping means to some people, and what emotional impact it has, as they are not very involved (especially Jensen) with members of the fandom outside of conventions. The cast & crew of Supernatural is not homophobic, and it is unfair to call them that. Misha is more sensitive to the subject because he has a better grasp on the fandom than J2 do, but I don’t think he is perpetuating queer baiting.

    Yes, I was hurt by those comments, but they did not make me think badly of Jared, Jensen, or the show. My main problem is with the writers. They have given us this sense of false hope with subtext. They are very aware of the fact that Destiel became a important aspect of the show to a vast amount of people. For some it started in season 4 or 5, for others (like me) it started toward the end of season 6. Despite the writer’s knowledge of the ship, and it’s growing fan base, they did not put us out of our misery and say “I’m sorry if we led you to think otherwise, but Destiel will not become a canon relationship.” If anything they have pushed it further, especially in the last two episodes of season 9 with “he’s in love” *pause* “with humanity,” and “you did it all to save one human.” If they writers/show runners really want to end the hope of canon Destiel, then confirm that it will never happen. While I believe they should have done that long ago, it will end our false hope. We may not be happy with it, but it will force us to stick with fan fiction and fan art, etc.

    Please do not ship hate, and I speak for all ships. It is not fair to call Destiel shippers delusional, because there are a large amount of us. It is not like a single person is seeing romance where there isn’t, because they are thousands of us. Please do not hate the actors. No matter what I will love Jensen, Jared, and Misha to death. They have spent many years of their lives making this show into a wonderful thing. They have sacrificed time spent with their wives and kids to join us at conventions. They have made their characters so believable in an unbelievable world, that many of us have strong emotional attachments to them.

    If you want to stop watching this show after the comments that were made, please do. No one is forcing you to stay, and I am sad to see you go. I will be here until this show comes to an end, and I will always be proud of my fandom. Rather than creating hate because of ships, why not celebrate the amazing show that has brought us all together?

  • This seem like it’s mostly the result of repeated misunderstandings. I ship Destiel and I agree with Jared. If Cas’ heaven HAD been countless Naked Deans (which was obviously a joke), it would have been silly and stupid and undermined the whole point of the show. It’s not about them falling in love and finding happily ever after and to highlight a previously subtle hinted possibility would’ve been pornish and crackish. They all have too much important stuff to do for Destiel to be a big point of the show. Same for any relationship, which is why they never last on the show.
    And Jensen is right, Dean and Cas’ relationship was getting weird. Two much interaction with not enough substance and fans were crazy over it for a while. In season nine there was less interaction, but the scenes they had were genuine and weren’t forced, and it made it a lot better. Jen doesn’t really do slash. Unless it says it in the script or something happens in show, I don’t think he’d see anything there. They could kiss and he’d probably be like “Yeah, but the had to” or “it was appreciation, the moment called for it, it doesn’t mean they ARE together.”

  • Yeah, no, fan reactions do not matter relative to authorial intent. The author’s story is reality. How a fan interprets that reality does not actually change anything in the story’s universe. If an author writes that the sky is purple, it remains purple even if you think it would be much better with a red sky. This self-centered approach to fandom is ridiculous. You are merely seeing into another universe with its own Creator, and you do not get to play at being another deity just by watching.

    No one has to respect shippers. It is irrelevant why you do it, how it validates you, or anything else. The show is under no obligation to acquiesce to ridiculous desires that do not fit with the intent or direction of the work. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. Complaining that it should go in a wildly different and unintended direction just to suit you is silly.

  • Straight people are wild, dude. They actually think we pull this stuff out of our asses. The same thing happens in the Sherlock fandom with Johnlock. You can’t explain away the romantic parallels between Destiel and countless other heterosexual romance arcs. We aren’t reaching; we’re analyzing the text given to us. Anybody notice the colors of the bisexual flag while Cas is talking to Naomi in 8×17? How Dean’s confessional to the priest in 10×16 mirrors a coming out confession? The indicators have been there since Cas’ introduction to the show. “I did it, all of it, for you.” Do I think Destiel is/could become endgame? Maybe. If it isn’t, then by God, Supernatural will go down in history as the biggest queerbait of all time.

  • I’m very disappointed about everything that’s happened with j2 I hope they’re good people but I don’t know any more. I’m gonna keep hoping for Destiel but if it doesn’t happen what can I do, if I give up on supernatural now I’ll never know if it happens

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